Ath.Reflect;in what point of view does this sort of praise appear just:First,in reference to the question in hand:-If the then commanders had known how to arrange their army properly,how would they have attained success?Would not this have been the way?
They would have bound them all firmly together and preserved them for ever,giving them ******* and dominion at pleasure,combined with the power of doing in the whole world,Hellenic and barbarian,whatever they and their descendants desired.What other aim would they have had?
Meg.Very good.
Ath.Suppose any one were in the same way to express his admiration at the sight of great wealth or family honour,or the like,he would praise them under the idea that through them he would attain either all or the greater and chief part of what he desires.
Meg.He would.
Ath.Well,now,and does not the argument show that there is one common desire of all mankind?
Meg.What is it?
Ath.The desire which a man has,that all things,if possible-at any rate,things human-may come to pass in accordance with his soul's desire.
Meg.Certainly.
Ath.And having this desire always,and at every time of life,in youth,in manhood,in age,he cannot help always praying for the fulfilment of it.
Meg.No doubt.
Ath.And we join in the prayers of our friends,and ask for them what they ask for themselves.
Meg.We do.
Ath.Dear is the son to the father-the younger to the elder.
Meg.Of course.
Ath.And yet the son often prays to obtain things which the father prays that he may not obtain.
Meg.When the son is young and foolish,you mean?
Ath.Yes;or when the father,in the dotage of age or the heat of youth,having no sense of right and justice,prays with fervour,under the influence of feelings akin to those of Theseus when he cursed the unfortunate Hippolytus,do you imagine that the son,having a sense of right and justice,will join in his father's prayers?
Meg.I understand you to mean that a man should not desire or be in a hurry to have all things according to his wish,for his wish may be at variance with his reason.But every state and every individual ought to pray and strive for wisdom.
Ath.Yes;and I remember,and you will remember,what I said at first,that a statesman and legislator ought to ordain laws with a view to wisdom;while you were arguing that the good lawgiver ought to order all with a view to war.And to this I replied that there were four virtues,but that upon your view one of them only was the aim of legislation;whereas you ought to regard all virtue,and especially that which comes first,and is the leader of all the rest-I mean wisdom and mind and opinion,having affection and desire in their train.And now the argument returns to the same point,and I say once more,in jest if you like,or in earnest if you like,that the prayer of a fool is full of danger,being likely to end in the opposite of what he desires.And if you would rather receive my words in earnest,I am willing that you should;and you will find,Isuspect,as I have said already,that not cowardice was the cause of the ruin of the Dorian kings and of their whole design,nor ignorance of military matters,either on the part of the rulers or of their subjects;but their misfortunes were due to their general degeneracy,and especially to their ignorance of the most important human affairs.That was then,and is still,and always will be the case,as I will endeavour,if you will allow me,to make out and demonstrate as well as I am able to you who are my friends,in the course of the argument.
Cle.Pray go on,Stranger;-compliments are troublesome,but we will show,not in word but in deed,how greatly we prize your words,for we will give them our best attention;and that is the way in which a freeman best shows his approval or disapproval.
Meg.Excellent,Cleinias;let us do as you say.
Cle.By all means,if Heaven wills.Go on.
Ath.Well,then,proceeding in the same train of thought,I say that the greatest ignorance was the ruin of the Dorian power,and that now,as then,ignorance is ruin.And if this be true,the legislator must endeavour to implant wisdom in states,and banish ignorance to the utmost of his power.
Cle.That is evident.
Ath.Then now consider what is really the greatest ignorance.Ishould like to know whether you and Megillus would agree with me in what I am about to say;for my opinion is-Cle.What?
Ath.That the greatest ignorance is when a man hates that which he nevertheless thinks to be good and noble,and loves and embraces that which he knows to be unrighteous and evil.This disagreement between the sense of pleasure and the judgment of reason in the soul is,in my opinion,the worst ignorance;and also the greatest,because affecting the great mass of the human soul;for the principle which feels pleasure and pain in the individual is like the mass or populace in a state.And when the soul is opposed to knowledge,or opinion,or reason,which are her natural lords,that I call folly,just as in the state,when the multitude refuses to obey their rulers and the laws;or,again,in the individual,when fair reasonings have their habitation in the soul and yet do no good,but rather the reverse of good.All these cases I term the worst ignorance,whether in individuals or in states.You will understand,Stranger,that Iam speaking of something which is very different from the ignorance of handicraftsmen.
Cle.Yes,my friend,we understand and agree.