Ath.Is a man more likely to abstain from the pleasures of love and to do what he is bidden about them,when his body is in a good condition,or when he is in an ill condition,and out of training?
Cle.He will be far more temperate when he is in training.
Ath.And have we not heard of Iccus of Tarentum,who,with a view to the Olympic and other contests,in his zeal for his art,ind also because he was of a manly and temperate disposition,never had any connection with a woman or a youth during the whole time of his training?And the same is said of Crison and Astylus and Diopompus and many others;and yet,Cleinias,they were far worse educated in their minds than your and my citizens,and in their bodies far more lusty.
Cle.No doubt this fact has been often affirmed positively by the ancients of these athletes.
Ath.And had they;courage to abstain from what is ordinarilly deemed a pleasure for the sake of a victory in wrestling,running,and the like;and shall our young men be incapable of a similar endurance for the sake of a much nobler victory,which is the noblest of all,as from their youth upwards we will tell them,charming them,as we hope,into the belief of this by tales and sayings and songs?
Cle.Of what victory are you speaking?
Ath.Of the victory over pleasure,which if they win,they will live happily;or if they are conquered,the reverse of happily.And,further,may we not suppose that the fear of impiety will enable them to master that which other inferior people have mastered?
Cle.I dare say.
Ath.And since we have reached this point in our legislation,and have fallen into a difficulty by reason of the vices of mankind,Iaffirm that our ordinance should simply run in the following terms:
Our citizens ought not to fall below the nature of birds and beasts in general,who are born in great multitudes,and yet remain until the age for procreation virgin and unmarried,but when they have reached the proper time of life are coupled,male and female,and lovingly pair together,and live the rest of their lives in holiness and innocence,abiding firmly in their original compact:-surely,we will say to them,you should be better than the animals.But if they are corrupted by the other Hellenes and the common practice of barbarians,and they see with their eyes and hear with their ears of the so-called free love everywhere prevailing among them,and they themselves are not able to get the better of the temptation,the guardians of the law,exercising the functions of lawgivers,shall devise a second law against them.
Cle.And what law would you advise them to pass if this one failed?
Ath.Clearly,Cleinias,the one which would naturally follow.
Cle.What is that?
Ath.Our citizens should not allow pleasures to strengthen with indulgence,but should by toil divert the aliment and exuberance of them into other parts of the body;and this will happen if no immodesty be allowed in the practice of love.Then they will be ashamed of frequent intercourse,and they will find pleasure,if seldom enjoyed,to be a less imperious mistress.They should not be found out doing anything of the sort.Concealment shall be honourable,and sanctioned by custom and made law by unwritten prescription;on the other hand,to be detected shall be esteemed dishonourable,but not,to abstain wholly.In this way there will be a second legal standard of honourable and dishonourable,involving a second notion of right.Three principles will comprehend all those corrupt natures whom we call inferior to themselves,and who form but one dass,and will compel them not to transgress.
Cle.What are they?
Ath.The principle of piety,the love of honour,and the desire of beauty,not in the body but in the soul.These are,perhaps,romantic aspirations;but they are the noblest of aspirations,if they could only be realized in all states,and,God willing,in the matter of love we may be able to enforce one of two things-either that no one shall venture to touch any person of the freeborn or noble class except his wedded wife,or sow the unconsecrated and bastard seed among harlots,or in barren and unnatural lusts;or at least we may abolish altogether the connection of men with men;and as to women,if any man has to do with any but those who come into his house duly married by sacred rites,whether they be bought or acquired in any other way,and he offends publicly in the face of all mankind,we shall be right in enacting that he be deprived of civic honours and privileges,and be deemed to be,as he truly is,a stranger.Let this law,then,whether it is one,or ought rather to be called two,be laid down respecting love in general,and the intercourse of the ***es which arises out of the desires,whether rightly or wrongly indulged.
Meg.I,for my part,Stranger,would gladly receive this law.
Cleinias shall speak for himself,and tell you what is his opinion.
Cle.I will,Megillus,when an opportunity offers;at present,Ithink that we had better allow the Stranger to proceed with his laws.
Meg.Very good.
Ath.We had got about as far as the establishment of the common tables,which in most places would be difficult,but in Crete no one would think of introducing any other custom.There might arise a question about the manner of them-whether they shall be such as they are here in Crete,or such as they are in Lacedaemon,-or is there a third kind which may be better than either of them?The answer to this question might be easily discovered,but the discovery would do no great good,for at present they are very well ordered.